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<titleStmt>
<title>Interview with Hilda and Earl Jefferies</title>
</titleStmt>
<publicationStmt>
<authority>Union County Historical Society</authority>
<publisher>Special Collections/University Archives, Bucknell University</publisher>
<date>19 November 1976</date>
</publicationStmt>
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<recording>
<date>March 3, 1974</date>
<respStmt>
<name>Jeannette Lasansky</name>
<resp>interviewer</resp>
</respStmt>
<respStmt>
<name>Hilda Jefferies</name>
<resp>interviewee</resp>
</respStmt>
<respStmt>
<name>Earl Jefferies</name>
<resp>interviewee</resp>
</respStmt>
<respStmt>
<name>Merrill Linn</name>
<resp>Interviewee</resp>
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<text>
<body>
<div>
<head>Interviewees: Hilda Jefferies and Earl Jefferies </head>
<byline>Jeannette Lasansky (3/13/74)</byline>
<p>Merrill Linn in background. Recorded in their home in Carroll, PA</p>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> Let me just see something.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> Everything was put up and dried and hung up there six weeks and smoked and
cured for the summer use. And fresh meat like the tenderloin which you buy,
like pork shops most farmers didn't make pork shops. They cut the pork
off of what is even now considered pork shop instead of stripping the pig
down the center of the back, they split it down each side of the back. And
that would be boney meat and this lean piece which we consider pork shop
now, was taken off and called tenderloin. Now farmers wives would take that
and can it. Put it into the quartjar, process it for three hours, and pack
it. Process it for three hours with a teaspoon of salt for each quart jar
and that gave you your fresh lean meat. In the summertime when you wanted to
change to the smokemeat. And that was a complete day's work. From early
morning until daylight, until night. Of course they made scrapple.
You've heard of scrappe. Take juice from the cannot meat and the liver
and the kidneys, what else did they put in it? Heart. That all was boiled
and the juice for that was what they made for scrapple. By putting white
flour, buckwheat flour corn meal in it. Sticking it into a wash type
consistancy. Put it in a pan. Left chill and slice it down and fry it.
That's for scrapple. And then the head meat itself was ground and put
back into the kettle after it was all ground and a little of this former
juice added to it. and that's what they have liverwurst. That they used
to put in crocks, cover it with lard, and it would get hard and sealed up
and you'd have that for months and months. In the winter time you used
it for buckwheat, wheat cakes. For breakfast.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> Pudding.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> Pudding. That would be more putting. That's liverwurst. Liverwurst or
liver putting.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> Now is that different from what you would get in the stores? Liverwurst now
and...</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> No, the liverwurst that you buy now is usually a casing that you use as a
sort of a spread. This pudding you can still buy it in the stores. Most
stores you can buy liverwurst.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> What is souse?</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> Souse. That was made from the pigs feet. From the knees down they chopped
off the proofs of it and those were strained and they were cooked so the
meat was real tender. They'd take it off the bone and add a bit of salt
and seasonings and the gel from that bone made it real nice and jelly like.
You could slice it down like it had gelatin in it. You could never cook it
though.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> Was the souse and the putting and the scrapple used for different kinds of
meals or different parts of the meal? What would be the main.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> Well, usually it would be the same as your main meat course. And lots of
people didn't always make all of their pigs feet into souse. They used
for boiled for sauerkraut, lots of times, too. They'd take pigs feet
out for sauerkraut. Boil it in with sauerkraut. It was good that way.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> Now would the farmer when the pig was killed and begin to be sliced up,
would the woman like select what kind of cuts she wanted? Could the.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> usually she would. Sometimes she preferred to have pork shops. Well, then
they cut the pig right down the center for the pork shops. usually they did
it... I know at our house they always did it the other way. They cut each
side of the back. And then that boney meat which had nothing but nice lean
on it that would make a good sauerkraut meat. Or turnips, or yellow turnips.
They call them yellow turnips now. That makes an excellent meal. Cooking
that fresh course with</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> Now your meat is then.. like your ham and your shoulder are they both?</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> They are both pickled and smoked. And bacon, too. usually sometimes often
they had fresh bacon in our house. We'd fry it to a nice brown and then
can that. After it was fried brown, fresh. And then you'd can that and
you could use that in a lot of different ways. Heat it again. And lots of
times you could put a piece of this fresh bacon over your baked filled
mangoes, and things like that. That was butchering day. But that was a real
hard, and then it was still a couple of days of hard work for the mother of
the house because she prepared the fresh meets and things, and preserved
them for later use.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> Would the cleaning of the intestines, would that be done that day?</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> Oh, yes. That was always done the same day immediately.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> And that would be quite a job.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> Oh, yes. Quite a job. Quitea messy job. And you learned how to do it. I
mean I think I could still do it. You know there's just yards and yards
to this intestine business. And you'd get it around your hand, you know
and then you would have... This was my job as a kid, and it always was as
long as I can remember. You take two strings and tie them just one here and
one here. And then you'd cut between them here, see. That's the
way you get the cut. It's a mess.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> Would you turn that inside out?</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> you turn them out. You turn them and scope them both sides. Just strip
those things up over your finger like that.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> What about the stomach and other parts?</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> Now your getting to something that's really good. They take the lining
out of the stomach, the front of the inside living. And that is to be
scraped and soaked in salt water for quite awhile. And then it would be
filled. The stomach would be filed either with sausage meat and stored away
or smoked. Often times they smoked that. Also the bladder they'd use,
believe it or not. Getting back to the stomach.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab>O.K. I'm talking about the stomach.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> You take the stomach and you have the two things you know, one here and one
out. And you try to get this turned around without opening up all the way
through, you know. Turn the thing inside out, the inner lining out and scope
it real well. On both sides. And move all the fat deposits you can because
along the edge of the stomach along the big end of it, there is always some
fat. And after you have this all well cleaned and soaked in salt water, then
you would make a filling out of it. Potatoes two 530 and partly boiled. Par
boiled. And some fresh sausage, and some celery and if you like onions, or
something like that you add a little onion, and bread crumbs. And you fill
that and you cook it maybe for an hour or two. It would be in a pot. You
take it out of the pot and you put it in an oven, and bike it for quite a
little while. And then you would serve it, and it's very good. And very
healthful. There's something about the content of the stomach walls
that's good and healthy.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> How thick is that?</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> Some places 1st thick and other places, it's just 1/8 of an inch. You
have to be very careful when your scraping it that you don't cut
through and get it into holes because then you have difficulty holding your
filling in. But those two main holes that you have you use to sew those shut
with turkey pine. Sew it up with turkeley pine.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> Then you cook it for about an hour or.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> An hour or two it depends. Put it into the oven and bike it. That sort of
dries it up and browns it up a little bit.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> So when I see in the supermarket, it says "Maws," M A W S;
it's a stomach.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> Try it sometime, I think you'd like it.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> Were there ever parts of the body that was taboo to eat or?</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> Ah, we always ate the tongue. Either you cooked that or pickled. Or you put
that in with your putting meat. Or sausage meat, either one. But usually we
pickled our tongue. They were small, but they were a choicy bit. We never
used the ears. But they tell me now that they put those in sauce and things.
And I'm inclined to agree with them. I found a few things in sauce that
looked like ears. But they didn't used to do that, the home
butchers.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> The tail?</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> We never used the tail for anything. Yes, they did! That's
interesting. they used to make a 550 greaser with the tail. Cut about 2
inches of fat, you know the tail goes right up along the backbone, they cut
the fat part out about 2 3/4 inches. And make a handle out of the tail, and
they used to grease their griddles, their cast iron griddles.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Earl: </speaker>
<ab> Make a hot cake.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> It really worked.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> What about the feet? Would they ever be pickled and just eaten alone?</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> Not that I know of. I think they may have done that but we made the souse
out of it.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> Was there any part that really wasn't used?</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> Nothing but the squeal.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Earl: </speaker>
<ab> The squeal.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> The what?</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Earl: </speaker>
<ab> The squeal.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab>The squeal was about the only thing they didn't use.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> What's the squeal?</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> eeeeeeee</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> Oh, that part! The last thing! Was the head separated when you...</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> Y es, they always cut the head off. They cut it off and take the laws off,
you know. And usually your pig's fat and he's pretty jump, and
they take the excess fat off that before they cook it for putting. But
that's why pudding is awfully rich, it usually has regular fat; no
matter how well they try to trim it off. There's pretty much fat to it.
The liver. We always used the liver. And the kidneys of the pig, which
aren’t too, large. They were always cleaned and throwed in with the pudding.
That was a real treat for the kids. That was a.. all the kids, if there
weren’t too many youngest, you divided your kidneys. You know they cut them
in half and cleaned them. All the little webs and so on out of it. And the
youngest always got a half a kidney. As soon as they were cooked, they run
to the salt jar and put salt on it and eat this kidney. That was a real
treat.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> Now the sweet breads.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> Now that's something that I don't know much about. They've
been....</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> The sweet breads are what? Is that the pancreas?</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> I believe it is. I believe I is that what we know as pancreas.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> Now you were mentioning that the meat we had today your... is from your
son.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> That's beef.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> What about that butchering was that ever done by people?</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> Oh, yes. Yes we used to kill beef at home. Raise the beef for our beef use.
But he sends his to the locker plant. Now he doesn't even bother doing
so.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> Why do you think that the people that are still butchering pigs continue
doing that?</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> A lot of people like to de it. And the nicest part is home cured ham. If
they're done right, you just can't beat them for favor.
They're excellent. And if they're not done right, they can be
pretty.. ah, not so good.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> The beef. Did a lot of people do their own butchering on that? How
different was that at certain times of the year?</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> Well, that depends on your beef age. I mean you wouldn't finish any-
thing up in one day. You'd kill the beef and skin it, stick it and have
it bled, the pigs were well bled before they were pulled up to the hog
through. They always bled well.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> What does that mean?</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> That means after you have them shot, stick them in the singular vain. It
makes them bleed out well.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Merrill: </speaker>
<ab> You do that when you are hunting for deer. Always cut the jugular
vein.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> Does it take very long to bleed out?</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> Not very long. They did the same thing with beef. They'd either. Often
times they'd kill the beef by just taking a big heavy mallet and
whopping them in the head. But usually they shoot them.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> And then they'd let them bleed.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> Let them bleed out well. And that either skin them laying down or else pin
them up and skin them. But we didn't kill as many beef... while as I
was growing as pigs. Because we knew more about pigs.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> With the pig your leaving the skin on. Your just taking the skin off.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> Your just taking the bristles off.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> What does the pine tar do? Do you know what...?</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> It somehow takes the bristles off somewhat. It has some good use in that.
We used to have a man that made this. Earl was talking about that the other
day. A man that rendered tar. I don't know how it did it, neither. Do
you? I have no idea. I know that Dad and Mother used to buy it by the quart.
In the quart can, Tobacco can or whatever he happened to have to put it
in.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> What would he use it for?</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> Well there were other uses for tar. And I don't know what they were
anymore, I really don't.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> I know there's a pine tar soap.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> Yes. And that's very good. Pine tar soap. We used to use that for
washing our hair. It was an excellent soap after you milked cows. If you got
all smelly working with cows, you came in and used tar soap. You never could
smell nothing of the barn on your hands. I always liked it for that purpose.
That was before we had Dial. Or Irish Spring, or any of those kind.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> People would use it for their hair.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> Yes. It was nice for your hair.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> So a family, getting back to the butchering a family would kill from maybe
2 to 8.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> Two to eight pigs. And sometimes it would be two days of butchering.
They'd only kill four one time and the other four the next time.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> That would be pretty much of a hard day's work.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> Oh, yes. You had a big crowd if you had eight.. if you has eight pigs to
butcher. You got them all cut up and the lard cut and everything it really
was a job. We didn't often butcher more than six. That was usually
about our limit.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> What about the lungs, are they...?</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> No. I'll tell you what they used to do with them. Everybody had
chickens in those days. And they hang these lungs up in the chicken house.
And the chicken would eat those lungs. They'd just pick at them and eat
them. Or use them for fox bait. If you trap fox.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> So, it sounds as if everything was used.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> Everything was used. Everything except the squeal.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> Now the beef butchering, the hog butchering occurred a certain time of the
year?</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> Always around November. Thanksgiving was a great day for having butchering.
It was also a family get together. I mean they butchered on Thanksgiving Day
and they had a great big meal, the table was grown with food. Of course by
the time the men came in they were ready to eat.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> Did the people smell a lot? I mean, were there any odors?</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> You mean after work?</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> From doing it. From doing i. Not from just hard work, but I mean from the
butchering itself.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> No, not really. Unless you were real slippery about it. That would be the
only reason you had a.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> bad butcher.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> If I had a bad butcher and cut the wrong thing or something.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> Would that happen?</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> That happens sometime. It never usually happens to more than one person
usually once. And after that they are pretty careful.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> Now the beef butchering would that be done at a certain time as well?</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> Usually in the fall of the year because of refrigeration. And then the meat
would be cannot. Canned in quarts. And that really is a lovely thing to have
on hand. Even now there's some people that butcher a beef and
they'll can so many quarts of it. You can get it at short order. I mean
if somebody drops in on you unexpected, you have this ready cooked fresh
meat to eat, and your in business. Another thing that they usually use is
the entire stomach, the pauuch, and make tripe out of it. Have you ever
eaten tripe?</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> Hope. I've heard it but I don't know...</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> You've got a good thing coming your way if you want to try that
sometime. Now</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> Now that's ah...</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> That's from the stomach of the beef.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> Is that a particular part of the stomach or?</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> No, the whole works. I know that mother worked for days in cleaning the
stomach of beef to make tripe. And they can it and pickle it. Cook it till
it's well done. And then cut it up in pieces and put it in a quart jar
and then pickle it; like you would a pickled tongue or anything, I've
always used a beef tongue.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> That's a much larger tongue than....?</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> Oh, yes. In fact I've got some beef tongue out here, if you'd
like to taste it. It's cooked and delicious.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> We used to have tongue a lot. I remember at I just wanted my father to cut
it a certain way, otherwise you'd see some of the ruins.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> That's right. In here you’ll see this.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> Yeah, and if he made the cuts as we were eating it, he'd cut it a
certain way or you almost would have that.. quite a bit here, a piece of the
tongue. But if he'd learn to cut it a different way only a few pieces
actually had that. Now what did most people, has there been a change in
diet, were people mainly beef enters or pork enters, or..?</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> I think we were more pork eaters. I think more people have turned to beef
in the last 30 years, than they did before. I think they.. in the country, I
mean they ate more. More pork. Now city wise, I really don't know.
Maybe they ate more beef there then they did pork. Maybe it's about 50
- 50.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> Now people are eating less of pork than.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> I think so. I think people feel better on beef than they do on pork. I
know.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> Because of the fat.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> that we're getting older. That's right. Of course you can get too
much beef, too.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> People would butcher enough to last for the rest of the year?</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> Last for the rest of the year.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> Would people buy cows or would they, would it be the kind of thing that you
would graze your own?</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> You'd graze your own. Usually you raised your own beef. Or some- times
they'd kill a cow when she was no longer a good producer, they'd
use that for beef. But as a rule they raised the beef or steer. Lots of
times they'd make steers. Have a little special.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> And would you say most people did this? I mean raising their own?</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> I think most farmers did, yes.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> Even if they were farming for something else, they'd have enough?</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> They'd either have enough or buy part of the beef or something like
that.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> We were talking earlier, you had mentioned the schnitz.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> Oh, yes. Dried sweet apples. You've heard of that. That's a Dutch
country... a real old Dutch dish. You boil a ham bone. After you get your
ham sliced down, you just have a small amount of ham on the bone anymore,
than you cook that and you add sweet apples, and then you make dumplings,
and top it over with this can of apple juice. Put some nice brown sugar in
the juice before you put the dumplings on and cook the dumplings from And
you really have a feast if you like something like that. It's very
good. And you use your apples without peeling them. You have to let the
skins on the sweet apples. And that holds them together when they cook, so
they don't crumble apart. That's an old Lancaster county dish, and
an old Dutch dish.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> Do you dry both sweet and sour?</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> We used to dry sour apples and make schnitz pie out of it. They called them
schnitz pie. Or dried apple pie. That's something to do, too.
That's done with the.. those you peel, the sour apples and then you
cook them and mask them through a strainer, then you add sugar and species,
and fill a double cut pie with them, and bike them in the oven like an apple
pie. That's something else that is good, too.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> How do you go about drying?</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> Mother used to dry hers in the wood oven. Done mostly in the oven. And some
people dry them in the sun. Because that time when we lived on the farm we
had flies. We didn't like the idea of them being out where the flies
could get on them. Because a dried apple will draw a fly very quickly.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> Would you put them on trays?</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> Put them on trays, they had like a window screen with wire nails in the
bottom and my Dad used to fix those and you could slide them right in your
oven. Let the one side dry and turn them over and keep on drying till they
rattled.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> Is this done on a low heat?</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> Yes, a lot heat. You couldn't have them too hot, or they'd
burn.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> Now what do you mean by a rattle?</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> Well they feel dry and rattley like. When you knew they were dry enough,
you’d take them out and store them. Cool them and Store them,</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> And when you go to prepare your food, how would you treat something that
was dried?</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> You'd wash them good before you'd put them over to dry. Usually I
soak mine. For the schnitz. I speak it for oh, maybe overrnight. And then
wash them first and then speak them. And then cook them in that same water
that they're soaked in. Add the sugar and dump that into the pan broth
and put the dumplings on top and cook them for about 12 or 15 minutes. Then
you serve your apples and your domplings together and the ham.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> What about other vegetables or fruits, are they dried?</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> Dry beans a lot. I still like to dry beans. I Still like to have some and
it goes with ham, too. It's a different taste than cannot beans. Yeah,
we used to dry corn. And that's a lot of people are very fond of dried
corn. I haven't dried any for a long time. A lot of people around here
still do.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> Would you do it the same way that..?</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> You do it the same way. You would do it in the oven.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> Does it compare to your frozen or your cannot...?</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> It tastes differently. You can buy it in the stores under Koch's dried
corn. You’ll see that in your supermarkets anywhere. And that's made
down around Lancaster county. And that's just about as good as you can
bake. If we were hungry for dried corn, I a just buy Koch's.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> Is a dried vegetable or fruit, is it close to a fresh..?</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> No, I wouldn't say so. I think the frozen can is much closer to the
natural taste. Then what the dried is. The dried does something to it, but
gives it different, it's good, but it's different.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> You dry the corn the same way you dry the apples?</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> That's right. Even in a pie plate you can do it. Just put them on
places and dry them like corn. Keep turning it from side to side. And about
the early 20's they came out with a steamer, it was made out of sheet
metal. And it was about 4 inches high, and had an opening at the top. Just
like a box. And there was one opening at the end where you put water in and
keep that filled with water and put your corn on the top of that. Now that
did a nice job, too. That was sort of a steam drying deal. The only thing
about that is I think your less likely to burn yourself. If your fire got
too hot and you forgot about it, the first things you'd have a little
scorched on the corn. And that does happen sometimes. Of course if you have
happen to have a lot of kids around there's always somebody who would
want to eat those scorched kernels.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> Would this be the kind of thing that, you know some of the other children
would get involved in, or was it the kind of thing the mother...?</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> The mother did most of those things and the older children. When I say
about the scorched kermels, there's kids running around that would
always want to eat</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> Do you know anything about the days? Are there any streams with any natural
clay deposits in this area?</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> No, I don't.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> Are there any potteries in this.. like in the Sugar Valley?</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> Loganton they made pottery, years and years ago. But that was long, long,
before my time. Their pots are quite rare and quite expensive.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> Is that a red kind of appearance?</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> No, the crocks when they were finished they were just like an ordinary
crock in color. They were gray.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> Gray.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> Gray.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> Do you know where there would be any information on the Loganton pottery?
Anybody that you know would have read...</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> I think Ernie Geiswite might have something on... he's kind of our
local historian. He knows about all those things.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> His name is?</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> Ernest Geiswite.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Merrill: </speaker>
<ab> He lives over here at east.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> And Merrill knows him.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Merrill: </speaker>
<ab> He's the last local history library on all of central
Pennsylvania.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> You say you have?</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Merrill: </speaker>
<ab> He does.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> He does. Ernie has a lot of information. He's about the only person I
know that could give you some good information on it.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> O.K. Because when you say that color, that sounds more like a high fired,
certain kind of days that would have that color. Most of them are low fired.
They tend to be reddish.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> Reddish. Well these that I have seen at Loganton were gray crocks. They had
glaze finishings inside, so they were well made.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> And when you were talking about the of putting in the crocks. Were most..
when you covered your crocks was that mostly with a wooden cover?</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> It was a wood cover.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> Ever with like a cloth, ah.?</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> Well, when you made sauerkraut you put a cloth directly on your sauerkraut.
And then you tied another one around your crock. And they put a lid on top
of that. Because that was done to keep insects out. You know sauerkraut
draws.. that was the main reason for that.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> And some of the others that you mentioned something that you put the lard..
over..</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> Oh, yes. You put a half inch or so of lard over your liver pudding.
Liverwurst. That would seal the crock and you could keep it in a cool place
for a couple of months. And my mother as soon as she thought the weather was
warmer in the spring you know; she'd get this crock out before anything
happened to it, and she would can that liverwurst. Put it in pint jars.
She’d put it in the pint pars.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Jeannette: </speaker>
<ab> It was getting too warm?</ab>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Hilda: </speaker>
<ab> Yes, it would get too warm and it might be spoiled. She would take it in
and melt it, you know on top of the stove. Like you would if you would want
to serve it. And then she'd pack it in pint jars, and then process it
in a hot water bottle. And then you'd have it any time of the year that
you'd want.</ab>
</sp>
<sp>