Category page for array opcodes?

[rorywalsh]

It seems to me that a category page for array opcodes would be nice to have. I’m also wondering whether we should remove some of the ones listed, as they seem very much rooted in Csound 5/6. Are the Zak opcodes still relevant, and likewise the mixer and signal graph opcodes? I wonder if it would be better to replace these with an entry for the various channel opcodes?

[fggp]

There's already a category page for array opcodes: https://csound.com/manual/math/array/.
The zak opcodes are relevant for backward compatibility because there are many examples published over the last 30 years that use these opcodes.
I'm no sure for the mixer and signal flow graphs opcodes which are more recent than the zak opcodes, and perhaps less used...

[rorywalsh]

Thanks @fggp, I didn’t think to look under Mathematical Operations. I thought they might warrant a top-level category. I don’t think we should remove the Zak opcodes, or mark as deprecated, but having them in a top-level category sends the message that they are a vital part of the Csound system, when in reality they, along with the mixer and signal flow opcodes, represent a more niche category.

[fggp]

Then we could group Zak Patch System, Signal Flow Graph Opcodes, and Mixer Opcodes under an new Overview level Signal Routing category. We could put Array Opcodes out of the Mathematical Operations category so that arrays have their own Overview level category. And finally, we could put Software Bus out of the Signal Input and Output category to its own Overview level category.
@joachimheintz what do you think of that?

[joachimheintz]

thanks françois --- i completely agree, und think this is a real improvement for good overview.

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On 16/02/2026 13:52, fggp wrote: *fggp* left a comment (csound/manual#788) <https://github.com/csound/ manual/issues/788#issuecomment-3908342194> Then we could group /Zak Patch System/, /Signal Flow Graph Opcodes/, and /Mixer Opcodes/ under an new /Overview/ level /Signal Routing/ category. We could put /Array Opcodes/ out of the /Mathematical Operations/ category so that arrays have their own /Overview/ level category. And finally, we could put /Software Bus/ out of the /Signal Input and Output/ category to its own /Overview/ level category. @joachimheintz <https://github.com/joachimheintz> what do you think of that? — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <https://github.com/ csound/manual#788#issuecomment-3908342194>, or unsubscribe <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ AAQYHKRDTNQSU6FBXLRI74T4MG4QDAVCNFSM6AAAAACVINRVNOVHI2DSMVQWIX3LMV43OSLTON2WKQ3PNVWWK3TUHMZTSMBYGM2DEMJZGQ>. You are receiving this because you were mentioned.Message ID: <csound/ ***@***.***>

[rorywalsh]

Thanks @joachimheintz and @fggp. This definitely sounds like a good step forward. My main concern is that the channel system provides significantly more flexibility for signal routing than many of the 'specialised' opcodes, so directing new users to those feels somewhat counterintuitive? I like the idea of the Signal Routing category. Perhaps it should start with an overview of the channel opcodes, followed by the other systems?

[edit] I also find it somewhat odd that Vectorial Opcodes are given a headline category, considering that they have been largely made redundant by the more modern and accessible array opcodes?

[edit 2] Please don’t misconstrue these comments as negative feedback on the amazing work you’ve done here, I’m just sharing a few observations I’ve made while using the new manual :)

[fggp]

I've done some refactoring in the Opcode Categories section of the manual following this issue discussion. @joachimheintz, @rorywalsh can you have a look?

[joachimheintz]

i think what you did is much better than what we had before. i like the new categories and the order. when i start looking at it: so many things would need kind of refactoring ... for instance the array section (so many new details, including the important shortcuts) but also something like Signal Input and Output > File Input and Output: i would expect here diskin and fout at first place, but this is only for non-audio files. in Signal Input there is diskin and diskin2 (deprecated), and then soundin as "streaming input", and invalue (?!?!?) ... too much work to do ... can't we condemn dear AI to fix this and give us back a CLEAN, COMPREHENSIVE and EVER LASTING new manual ??? ("thanks for asking me ... sorry it took 0.123 seconds to complete this task")

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On 17/02/2026 19:03, fggp wrote: *fggp* left a comment (csound/manual#788) <https://github.com/csound/ manual/issues/788#issuecomment-3916266990> I've done some refactoring in the /Opcode Categories/ section of the manual following this issue discussion. @joachimheintz <https:// github.com/joachimheintz>, @rorywalsh <https://github.com/rorywalsh> can you have a look? — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <https://github.com/ csound/manual#788#issuecomment-3916266990>, or unsubscribe <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ AAQYHKSWC4OMAJ3ZX7PIGJ34MNJYXAVCNFSM6AAAAACVINRVNOVHI2DSMVQWIX3LMV43OSLTON2WKQ3PNVWWK3TUHMZTSMJWGI3DMOJZGA>. You are receiving this because you were mentioned.Message ID: <csound/ ***@***.***>

[rorywalsh]

@fggp This looks so much better organised than before. Thank you very much for this. I think the point @joachimheintz makes about having diskin first on the File Input section is very valid. But it's looking great. I'm using it a lot, and I will continue to post observations if and when they come up. I think it's ok to work like this rather than asking AI to step in. One thing I have to contantly remind myself of is the fact that this is a reference manual rather than a guide to using Csound :)

[joachimheintz]

of course i was mostly kidding ... i agree that it is a reference manual. but anyway, it is an important guide to find opcodes, and more. what you do, rory, is the productive way to deal with it: improve it for concrete cases we come upon. thanks for this initiative; step by step we are becoming better ...

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On 18/02/2026 09:54, Rory Walsh wrote: *rorywalsh* left a comment (csound/manual#788) <https://github.com/ csound/manual#788#issuecomment-3919505855> @fggp <https://github.com/fggp> This looks so much better organised than before. Thank you very much for this. I think the point @joachimheintz <https://github.com/joachimheintz> makes about having |diskin| first on the File Input section is very valid. But it's looking great. I'm using it a lot, and I will continue to post observations if and when they come up. I think it's ok to work like this rather than asking AI to step in. One thing I have to contantly remind myself of is the fact that this is a reference manual rather than a guide to using Csound :) — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <https://github.com/ csound/manual#788#issuecomment-3919505855>, or unsubscribe <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ AAQYHKUHHT32KZECKNIE65L4MQSDBAVCNFSM6AAAAACVINRVNOVHI2DSMVQWIX3LMV43OSLTON2WKQ3PNVWWK3TUHMZTSMJZGUYDKOBVGU>. You are receiving this because you were mentioned.Message ID: <csound/ ***@***.***>